Garth I see your point, but, there are several problems with that. The 1st 1 is if you look at W9 a team I took over, because, I thought it could become good pretty fast, but is still 1 year away. That all of a sudden would mean I'm playing in a 12 team league. You lose a realization with that or scrapt too many leagues. I agree sandbagging and neglect are large problems, but, there are other ways to fix this. Sean came in about 6 months after I did. I brought him in. He also own Patriots season tickets with me. He owns 3 teams 1 which he got into the playoffs his 1st year and one in which he finally made the playoffs and is actually in a league championship series for the 1st time. He's continued playing because he loves the customer service and the interactiveness with other managers. This will happen with more managers if they see the product that's put out. Garth this is an excellent product and I feel PB needs to find more ways to get more people iinvolved without effecting the actual leagues in place now. I'm not exactly sure how this is going to be done, but, I'm sure it can be. If the product is good and reasonably priced and PB has an excellent product and is reasonably priced people will come and stay reguardless if they're competitive right away. I just hope they can find ways to do this.