What is the freaking NUMBER that we have to get down to

Noone seems to know. Ken is probably as close as anyone but its not from the horse's mouth so it can't be considered official.

I'm not really crabbing about the welfare state (although that would be fun). What I'm crabbing about is that if we don't know the number then we can't get down to it... unless you believe in the theory that you should drop down to 2-3 points below where you think it might be.